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What's your favorite performance of Starless?

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What's your favorite released performance of Starless?

Brescia (March 20, 1974) (DGM Live Download)
0
No votes
Heidelberg (March 29, 1974) (KCCC 29)
0
No votes
Mainz (March 30, 1974) (KCCC 15)
4
10%
Pforzheim (March 31, 1974) (DGM Live Download)
0
No votes
Pittsburgh (April 29, 1974) (TGD Disc 3)
1
2%
Asbury Park (June 28, 1974) (USA Bonus Tracks)
1
2%
Providence (June 30, 1974) (TGD Disc 1)
1
2%
Providence (June 30, 1974) (TGD Disc 1)
1
2%
The Album Version from the album "Red"
15
39%
Central Park (July 1, 1974) (KCCC 10)
15
39%
Another performance not listed, please specify
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 38

Postby jtmack on Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:28 pm

Indyrod wrote:I've added the ALBUM version of "Starless" to this poll, and also the option to specify another version.


So I can vote now thank you Indyrod...
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Postby evktalo on Fri Oct 26, 2007 11:43 am

The sax contrast in the fast part is marvellous, the honking in slow part is not retrogade, just plain awful. And I like the violin, so studio version is definitely not my choice. But which one is.. haven't heard all of those. Mainz is a good one. Providence was the first I heard. Asbury Park.. I don't know, should give another listen..

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Postby Indyrod on Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:37 pm

I think this Poll might be a little screwed up right now, because when I added "Album" and "Another" choices, it seems to add to "Central Park" as well whenever you vote for "Album", and for some ungodly reason, "Providence" is showing twice. Just a little bug in the PHP code I assume, because it won't let me fix it. We've had Polls on Starless before, so I guess we make the best of it. :?
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Postby NICK on Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:27 pm

When I first heard "Starless" off the "Red" album in 1974, that sent me. It has remained my personal favourite since then - not just my favourite KC track, but the best piece of music by anyone from any era. After 33 years, it STILL makes my flesh crawl and makes most of my bodily hair stand on end. I want it played at my funeral! The live versions have never come close, but even then, a poorly played "Starless" defecates onto anything/everything else from a great height. My only personal regret is that KC NEVER performed "Starless" in the UK, though, thankfully 21CSB put that right, in a manner of speaking.
I dunno if it's me, but the "USA" version of "Starless" sounds different from "Asbury Park", EVEN THOUGH IT'S THE SAME GIG! "Fracture" is certainly different - on "Asbury Park", Cross's Mellotron has been substantially mixed down. Anyone else noticed this?

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Postby steven on Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:16 pm

NICK wrote:I dunno if it's me, but the "USA" version of "Starless" sounds different from "Asbury Park", EVEN THOUGH IT'S THE SAME GIG! "Fracture" is certainly different - on "Asbury Park", Cross's Mellotron has been substantially mixed down. Anyone else noticed this?

Nick fae Embra


USA is not entirely Asbury Park, several songs are from Providence, RI. I'm going from memory here and I'm almost senile, but I believe that is the difference you speak of. I voted for the album version. Some of the live versions are quite impressive, but the thing that really bothers me about them is that the mellotron parts are not quite perfected, and I can detect a few brown moments in them. The chord changes in the studio version are seamless, and I agree, it gives me chills to hear it to this day. My fave to put on when I'm feeling depressed and out of sorts. Come to think of it, I'm going to put it on right now.
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Postby NICK on Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:55 pm

steven wrote:USA is not entirely Asbury Park, several songs are from Providence, RI. I'm going from memory here and I'm almost senile, but I believe that is the difference you speak of. I voted for the album version. Some of the live versions are quite impressive, but the thing that really bothers me about them is that the mellotron parts are not quite perfected, and I can detect a few brown moments in them. The chord changes in the studio version are seamless, and I agree, it gives me chills to hear it to this day. My fave to put on when I'm feeling depressed and out of sorts. Come to think of it, I'm going to put it on right now.


Steven - I think there is something that you're unaware of. Yes, "USA" does not originate exclusively from the Asbury Park gig, but only 1 track, "21CSM" came from the Providence R.I. gig of 2 nights later. Due to an apparent recording fault, some of David Cross's contributions had to be overdubbed in the studio. It was all edited and the "USA" album came out in 1975. The 30th Anniversary CD version of "USA" added "Fracture" and "Starless" which came from the Asbury Park gig, but the CD notes didn't say so.
In response to aficionado demands, and from critics who wanted to know how the tracks "Asbury Park" and "Easy Money" ended, DGM made available, via download only (I think), the full Asbury Park gig in November 2005, calling the release "Casino, Asbury Park, New Jersey". This was subsequently released, with "Live in Mainz", as a double CD set called "The Collectable King Crimson, Vol.2", which I recently bought. I do NOT know if the "...Asbury Park..." CD has Eddie Jobson's overdubs, but I think that they don't.
When you were invited to vote for your favourite version of "Starless", one of the options displayed is "USA/Asbury Park". The poll organiser has assumed that the versions of "Starless" on "USA" and "...Asbury Park..." are identical. I am making the assertion that there are slight differences between the two. Certainly, the mellotron on the "...Asbury Park..." version of "Fracture" is almost inaudible, compared to its equivalent on "USA".
I voted for "Red" as well, so the discussion is probably redundant! The live versions of "Starless" have never compared to the classic on "Red" as I always felt that Cross's violin was fractionally out of tune, or was hitting a bum note, particularly early on. Also, during the final crescendo, with Mellotron and bass to the fore, Fripp always ruined it with his monotone sustain, which he corrected for the "Red" version.
Any questions?
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Postby Glenn Seitz on Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:20 am

NICK wrote:Also, during the final crescendo, with Mellotron and bass to the fore, Fripp always ruined it with his monotone sustain, which he corrected for the "Red" version.
Any questions?

That's fairly harsh. Rather than ruin it, maybe he refined it for the studio. I assume you're referring to the last minute of the song. On the "Red" version, it sounds like they've switched to some type of horn instead of Fripp's guitar there. You have to admit, whatever it is, it makes a very powerful and emotional final crescendo......
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Postby NICK on Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:28 am

Glenn Seitz wrote:That's fairly harsh.


Probably!

Glenn Seitz wrote:Rather than ruin it, maybe he refined it for the studio.


Don't think so.

Glenn Seitz wrote:I assume you're referring to the last minute of the song.


Yep

Glenn Seitz wrote:On the "Red" version, it sounds like they've switched to some type of horn instead of Fripp's guitar there. You have to admit, whatever it is, it makes a very powerful and emotional final crescendo......


I think you're spot on there. There IS something, but I'm not sure what it is. I don't think it's a horn, though. The 'Crescendo', as I'm sure you've spotted, is the same as the introductory section, but at twice the pace. It has to be said that it's the Mellotron that makes this track. I've loved nearly everything that KC did with the mighty 'tron, but it has caused some rather vindictive bile to be poured onto me on this site by Vrooom and Owen, but it don't bother me.

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Postby Indyrod on Sun Nov 04, 2007 3:32 am

Hey NICK, don't be concerned about those slamming the old mellotron. There's plenty of us here that love how KC used it, including me. "Starless" would be just another song without it. Well, maybe that's not true, but I love it as much as I do Cross' violin (referring to the live versions). Oh, and I've never heard a horn in the album version, so probably some funky thing Fripp is doing.
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Postby Owen on Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:59 am

NICK wrote:I've loved nearly everything that KC did with the mighty 'tron, but it has caused some rather vindictive bile to be poured onto me on this site by Vrooom and Owen, but it don't bother me.


NICK, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about with regards to me. I just checked all your posts here, and as far as I can tell I only ever responded negatively once to one thing you said, saying that it was "absurd". And I believe I apologised for it in another forum. I would hardly qualify that as "vindictive bile". Correct me if I am wrong.

So, let's leave that be please. I certainly have no desire to offend or upset anyone... except Indy. 8)

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