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ProjeKct X - Heaven and Earth (2000)

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ProjeKct X - Heaven and Earth (2000)

Postby evktalo on Sun May 23, 2004 8:27 pm

Hmm. After a couple of listens through this disc, I'm not entirely convinced.

A few tracks begin very well, with a good beat, good bassline and good guitars/synths, but when the music builds up into the moment of transition, the "b-part" which follows goes into random noodling -mode and I personally find little to appreciate.

The Business of Pleasure was Heaven and Earth's coda before Fripp suggested something different? I'm glad he did. Sid tells in his book how nothing was thrown away and the coda became the beginning track of the album. I'd rather it didn't, it does really badly and can't stand on it's own as a track. It would have kind of ruined H&E as a coda, though.

As an aural peek behind the scenes H&E does ok, it's nice to hear the band conjure up Oyster Soup with Demolition.

The best stuff is at the end. Heaven and Earth is a really great track and sounds really good after sort of enduring through the first 13 tracks. Really a Crimson classic for me at least, and I understand it was even done in some live shows, am I correct? Belew Jay Way also holds together very well and is consistent and beautiful.

So that's my general first impression. I found this disc in the library, to my excitement, and now it's fallen off the top of my must-buy list. Perhaps my opinion will change once I get the chance to relisten again.

EDIT: I really like the third disc of Heavy ContruKction, which in part gave expectations.

I'd like to read other opinions on this disc.

--Eino
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Postby The Crimson Avenger on Mon May 24, 2004 3:38 pm

I like this CD a lot. Bought my copy at the 12th and Porter gigs in 2000, and it was the soundtrack for the weekend in Nashville. Its one of my favorite office CDs - if I play it on my speakers, nobody ever comes in :twisted: I once listened to it for three (work)days straight on headphones, when, in the middle of about the 22nd run through 'Superbottomfeeder', I realized I was going completely insane.
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Postby vrooom on Mon May 24, 2004 4:10 pm

While I think that the track "Heaven & Earth" is probably the best thing on TCoL and this eponymous disc, the rest of the H&E album is so-so. Like the BPM&M disc, there are only brief moments that I like. It's been such a long time since I've heard this disc, I think I might need to give it a spin when I get some time.

In fact, here's a treat. This is "Heaven & Earth" being performed for the very first time back in 2000.

<center><embed src="http://www.projekction.net/media/h&e.wma" autoplay="false" ShowStatusBar="1" ShowDisplay="1"></center>

Enjoy!


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Postby MarkSullivan on Mon May 24, 2004 5:20 pm

I also vote for "so-so." After hearing Heaven and Earth on TCOL, I was expecting, well, heaven and earth. But the rest of the disc isn't even close to the standard set by that track, although it's a pleasant enough listen. I say this as a big fan of the ProjeKcts--in that context, I might put ProjeKct X slightly ahead of ProjeKct Two (the one ProjeKct I'm not crazy about-I just don't think Adrian's drumming works well for the music)--but that still puts it way down on the list.
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Postby Sebastian Knight on Mon May 24, 2004 5:28 pm

This is one of my favorite ProjeKct disks. It doesn't rank quite as highly in my book as Roar of P4, but it's clearly way up there. It's certainly true that "Heaven and Earth" is the standout track here, but there's more gold to be found on the album. For one thing, I strongly prefer "Demolition" to "Oyster Soup" -- I think the melodic line in Oyster Soup tends to blunt the impact of the more disjointed melodic line in Robert's part, as the ear tends to follow Ade's countermelody instead.

I listen to PX more often then I listen to TCOL these days. Partially that's because for many of the tracks on TCOL there are better versions available now (very much true for Larks IV). Of course, then again, I'm listening to TU more than PX :D
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Postby evktalo on Mon May 24, 2004 9:31 pm

vrooom wrote:In fact, here's a treat. This is "Heaven & Earth" being performed for the very first time back in 2000.


Thanks, Darren.

That (live H&E) is not quite the track it is on the album(s).

--Eino
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Postby vrooom on Mon May 24, 2004 10:03 pm

evktalo wrote:Thanks, Darren.

That (live H&E) is not quite the track it is on the album(s).

--Eino


I think that's because the studio H&E was a composite track glued together with studio trickery, which might have been a bit tricky to pull off live and therefore dropped from the later setlists.


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Postby Guest on Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:20 am

I'm actually a bit surprised at the luke warm response to this CD. I was a bit late in aquiring all the ProjeKcts discs (2004) as I wasn't listening to any Crim for a while. I bought Thrack when it came out and liked it but I needed more. So it was a few years before I returned to the Crim mould :? and was knocked out by the ProjeKcts. (no vocals for me, I edit all the vocal tracks out of my Crim CDs). I think ProjeKct X is excellent. In fact it ranks #3 with me after Masque and West Coast Live. As far as anything by ProjeKct 2..... why on Heaven and Earth did A.B. think he should try to play drums when B.B. and P.M. were the guys at the time. Being a musician I have witnessed this problem with almost all the guitar players I have played with....They are all frustrated drummers. More ProjeKcts! I need more!
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Deception of the v-Drum

Postby crimcinnaman on Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:58 am

laz wrote:As far as anything by ProjeKct 2..... why on Heaven and Earth did A.B. think he should try to play drums when B.B. and P.M. were the guys at the time. Being a musician I have witnessed this problem with almost all the guitar players I have played with....They are all frustrated drummers.


Hmmmm... I don't think he originally did try out as the drummer. P2 originally started out as the Nashville Guitar Trio.

Remember P2 was the first projeKct to actually play. During a breakin the first P2 get together in Mt Juliet, TN Robert requested to hear Ade's newly devlivered v-drums.

As Adrian began tinkering and changing patches, Robert and Trey started an impromptu jam and after about 45 minutes they have the first CD of "Space Groove" in the can, thanks to Kengineer wisely rolling tape of the session.

At this point I believe Robert insisted that Ade would be on the sticks, sans guitar for P2... Who is Adrian to tell Robert, "No"?
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Postby crimcinnaman on Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:09 pm

I'm up too late and just happened to find an old file I had assembled of Pat Mastellotto's diary entries during the making of the PX disk.

I have always really enjoyed the PX disk and it's fun to go back and read through some of the "history" of putting this one together. So, before I lose this file again, I thought I'd post it here.

On Oct 19, 1999 p@ wrote:Since Crimson works relatively short days (12-6), Bill Munyon and I
decide to fill our evenings editing Crim rehearsal jams. Robert calls
this ProjeKct X.


On Dec 8 p@ wrote:....cont. - back with Crim. Ade spends the day doing vocals. After
listening to rough mixes on my flights I suggest to Trey we need an
additional track for Robert to solo over, at this point he has no solos
on this record and we need some seriously Frantic Fripp Fretwork, right?
So we go into studiobelew over the weekend with Munyon again and start
an upbeat spy theme. Since the studio is so hot (no AC) and the garage
is so cold (no heat) we three decide to pack the G3 and head for our
appartment (studio 3?) to continue dissecting this digital ditty. The
full crim (4 piece, double duo that is) gets back to work a few days
later and cuts our last two songs. Trey and I continue with the little
"SpyKritter" and get Robert and Ade to do some overdubs. Robert suggests
both a new title "Heaven and Earth" and the notion that our coda is too
fast. So we go in the following weekend and record a new coda. After 8
weeks I am well sick of Vdrumming and opt for real skins.
Maybe because I am a sloth or because its new, but this is my favorite
groove on the record so far, a nice gentle 9/8 beat that reminds me of
‘Biko’ (meets ‘Kiss from a Rose’). Robert's previous soundscapes now
seem completely satisfying. Last week, doing overdubs on one of the
last tracks we cut, "Oyster Soup", Adrian appointed Robert 'Spider
Fingers' and sends him off to play midi piano guitar, a total hoot and
a great solo!!! It's so good this section gets extended to include half
of Adrian's solo and, what would have been, two vocal choruses. So my
fetish for a Fripp solo is satisfied either way. Viva La Spider!


On Dec 21 p@ wrote:I head to my garage in search of more Projekct X memories and locate
several including 'Belew JayWay'. An Adrian riff and Trey tone that
constantly haunts my brain, I thought this one might make the Crim
record. Compiling these spontaneous wonders will keep me busy till
Munyon returns.


On Jan 31, 2000 p@ wrote:Starting to reload and reorganize more PX. Today we loaded
Halloween Suites 1 & 2, these were hastily mixed and sent to DGMLive
for a download early last November, along with Halloween Suites 3a, 3b
& 3c. Since we have so much trouble remembering which is which with
these titles (a similar problem to P3) we are giving them new names,
temporary working titles at least for Bill & I, they are now Halloween
Sweets called 'Strawberry Field' and 'Itchy'. After getting the two
reloaded from cd archives and getting them to voice as when we last
left off, we try some minor edits, just a bit of snipping to help them
move along better. These two originated from the same 45 minute jam
last October at StudioBelew. They both run at 160bpm and feature some
wild guitar playing, hard to tell which guy is playing what, and we
were there! It's a DnB'ish drum track, not unlike P4. We spend a little
more time on the sonics before we call it a day. My imac arrives this
afternoon and so I stopped work on Nash 97 to hook that up.


On Feb 3 p@ wrote:We start a little later today. As the day goes on Munyon seems
to be getting the cold the whole neighborhood has, sniff, sniff. We load
'Demolition', since Robert has made this a priority to send asap next
week. Next Monday, when we go to the real studio to do our final mixing
on all these PX tunes, we will start with this one. There is a
Demolition part 2, a separate 4 min piece that we call 'Six o'clock'.
Bill works on Demolition 1 and I sort through the piles of paperwork
still on my desk and by the evening I can see that yes, the desk is
indeed made of wood, actually rather handsome, this desk was my wife's
grandfather's and deserves to be kept tidy. We add some SDSV and
Fireworx to the drums and reamp the bass. 'Demolition' comes from a
morning back at Ade's when I arrived early and was working out ideas in
11/4 for 'Larks'. Before long Trey joined me and we had a small
vocabulary in the works. When Ade and Robert arrived they jumped in and
away we went, good fun(!) jamming and that would have been that, except
Kengineers had the good sense to roll tape. So we had a playback and
besides pulling Demolition from this jam we later built a similar tune
for the Crim record called 'Oyster soup'. Soup's my fav lyrics from
Adrian,....get ready....


On Feb 4 p@ wrote:At 7a.m. the Post Office is deserted but not after I get done
mailing 20 MasticA packs, I turn around to about 10 annoyed package
holders, sorry I took so long. Late last night I went through 'Belew
Jay' again and found the cut, it's now under 6 min. Bill is sick but
comes anyway. Today we resurrect the original 'H&E' coda, we call
'Kritter Coda', last week we toyed with inserting it as a bridge to H&E,
but we were not convinced, this morning we develop it for a possible
link. As this is going on I work on more paperwork, a years worth of
receipts to get ready for taxtime, this will take me months of weekends
to get organized. Wowwieee, what was that over there? La Munyonhead
sound? Ade meets Bruno, and Bruno likes Ade. Bruno meets Bob, but will
Bob like Bruno? This Kritter shorty is starting to stand up sideways.
After Bill departs I load two ideas from my Christmas discoveries. These
are more shorties that may stand as songs or be useful as links, they
are both from Rhythm Buddy research done last November. I call one
'That's it' and the other '1-E-+' based on the dialog they contain. I
sampled a guitar phrase of Robert's and fire him from my Notron, making
him a Klacki Industrial chopper. Next I compile some little link ideas
to send to Robert, short riffs, soloed lines, brief drumbeats, hanging
chord clouds, I don't know if he will get these in time. I close out the
night glueing popsickle sticks for tomorrows school carnival.


On Feb 5 p@ wrote:Dad's up, and off to be a boothboy. In confetti and glitter I am
back to work with Bill around 5. Not much to do on 'Thats' & 'One', they
sounded good, concise little moments. Compact data on a few things and
then look back into 'Strawberry Fields' adding some Simmons to the foot,
like I did on P3+4. I play the sound card as it is triggered by my foot
on tape, I like to bend the filter or decay knobs to match the dynamics
and help outline longer phrases within the drum figure. It works real
well on this tune since it was a little low end shy, I make Trey sound
sort of like Colin with lots of gliss's, next Trey's Bass pass going
through my 1960 tube compressor, great for over driving bass. When Trey
visits me we use this. Next Bill automates Bruno & Reso passes on the
beatbox. Then we search for 'Sidewinder', this is our new working title
for 'Halloween Suite 3c', it had some spoken word from Ade and since we
did not use all his donations yet, we want to create a stock pile to
take to the mix. A small pool to become familiar with and have available.
Then we look for 'Camel Jam', what Adrian called the Chinese parade beat
with monster guitar, we are thinking if we have time at the mix (we
never will) to run a pass of this to see if we can sort out a chunk.
This features Trey playing percussion samples from my Turkish friend
Cenk fired from his guitar, as he still plays bass!! And Ade beyond
rhinosporidium, I keep hearing kids calling and cars honking and run to
check my driveway. Very P3 like. Uncle Jeff comes by late to vibrate and
seduces Bill into working even later.


On Feb 10 p@ wrote:Beautiful overcast cloudy day, still mixing. We got three
'tunes' finished today. 'Strawberry Fields' was finished around 3pm
along with 'Strawberry Extracts', a late night glue together of outakes
that makes a very nice listen on its own. Plus Munyon found a pounding
'Strawberry 7/8 loop' that truly rocks! 'I buried Stanley' was what I
heard as I drove away. Bill stayed to set up the 'Kritter Coda' while I
ran home for emails and phone calls. By the time I returned he had put
the Kritter to bed along with some 'Kritter Extracts', excellent stuff!!
Next we mixed 'Itchy' along with some ambient, clubish 'Itchy Extracts'.
Then 'Belew JayWay'; we start this around 10 pm and working late night
seems to help match its foggy dark mood. Surprise again!! Uncle Jeff
arrives with fresh tex/mex, this keeps us jumping until about 2am. While
I was home this afternoon I spent time on the phone with Ade talking
about many things including getting his dialog for 'B.Jay'. I now know
this won't happen in time, so we go back and pull Adrian's spoken word
outakes from 'Sidewinder'. As usual, for Bill & I, we are still creating
the arrangement as we mix. I can't say enough about Bill's creative
input on this PX work (and Crim record): arranging, retuning, tightening
the timing, sonic sculpting, but most often it's removing more than
moving. Our drummer plays way too much, yet somewhere under the clutter
is a germ of a gem, ya just gotta expose it. Rake rake rake away the
nonsense.


On Feb 11 p@ wrote:Long night, our sick dog kept my wife up all night, and me most
of it with her. What little sleep I got, I didn't. Today is our last day
at Blue World, lots to do, we keep poking and punching this lump of clay
we call 'Belew jay' and finally around 4pm, it has a new shape and form.
Some great lonely guitar soloing from Robert, sort of like the feeling
of 'Ringo' in HDN, or some sad lost oboist. Adrian's riff is a total
hook (to my ears). Of course, as usual, we also have a 'Belewjay
Extract', it's more open, dark and a bit gothic, by using less guitars
it reveals some great Wettonish bass work from Trey. Next we do
'One-E-And', this might be the most syncopated, UP, track we have, it's
in 4/4 but the downbeat is largely MIA. A bit of bopping industrial pile
driving hoopla, lots of clamoring vocals (Trey & I) swimming around.
Then we do 'That's it', the happier side of the previous track, sort of
a 1:30 Hawaiian Hula. Around 10pm we put up 'Camel Jam' and tinker with
that until our eyelids droop like a Tex Avory cartoon. Around 3am we do
the BIG pack, load up & out and scurry on home.


On Feb 29 p@ wrote:"Tuesday Afternoon", one of the few Moody Blues songs I like,
and a Leap day Party! Well it finally started to sound right last night,
that's PX I mean. I was getting concerned this last weekend, things just
were not fitting together as I had imagined but then they seldom do.
Most of my best ideas come from other people, but sometimes if I keep
trying I might eventually make some insightful mistakes. So time seems
to be a necessity, time to catch my mistakes, time to have happy
accidents, time to live with something I am in love with, until I see
its faults (the ones so obvious that I overlook them, focusing on
details). PX actually shrunk a bit, leaving a few pieces out so the
flow is less obscured. I'll head off to Munyon's to wrap that up soon,
burn some cdrs to send the team and get feedback. Then after digesting
their comments will finish fluffing this beast over the weekend and send
off into the world next week, fingers crossed, hoping it flies. I spent
time wearing my Radio Promo Man hat yesterday, pushing, phoning,
begging. Not to have our record played but just listened too, if they
believe it they can play it, if not they shouldn't, I just want it to
get its chance to reach their ears. One interesting booking agent,
misunderstood and thought I was trying to book King Crimson in the local
clubs, boy was he short with me: "We are too busy for them, we have XYZ
acts". Hooked up to talk about a future Project that should be amazing,
I won't mention the details, since I think it jinxes the music to talk
about it before it happens. When we have raised the flag we'll let you
know. I also got a love email from my Turkish buddy, check it out -
http://mahir.virtualave.net/ he is very sweet and like he says: "I like
to be friendship from different country."


On Mar 5 p@ wrote:Sunday. I keep wishing I had access to that Twilight
Zone episode clock stopper, the one that freezes the rest of the world
while you keep going and catch up, I need some catch up time. The PX
work has been sent out, no word from Ade yet but Trey and Robert's
reaction was good, although Robert's was confusing. He says "shame it's
in mono", I thought it must be his hotel hi-fi and suggested headphones,
he later replied "I am in headphones". This is a concern since Robert's
focus in most mixes is mostly to do with stereo placement, so my
assumption is he is unsatisfied with the stereo imaging. I can assure
you things are whizzing about. We have unfinished details and a few more
tweaks to satisfy our own selfish interests as well as a new conceptual
nugget we unearthed and might hope to add. Then later this week, after I
get Adrian's feedback and resolve Robert's concerns I plan to spitpolish
PX and skip it across the pond.


On Mar 8 p@ wrote:We also worked days & nights on PX this week, we got very
positive feedback from the team so we fixed a few small details in the
crossfades and had it at 71 min. Some members mentioned how much they
enjoyed the talking and spoken word bits and wondered if we might pepper
the tracks with more. Well, we figured we had a few short minutes still
left to play with so....Bill and I pasted together another track, a
'Conversation Piece', made from talking during rehearsal and recording.
Bill used echoes and delays to create a bed track, then the dryer
speaking sits upon it, so much information. I hear something different
almost every time, with an interesting #9 take on an ABA form, this will
keep posters busy dissecting for a while. It's interesting how many ways
these PX vocals arrive throughout this record and the pallet of
instrumental sounds is beyond the beyond. One of our non-Crim-fan
20-something ears said "I didn't know bands did this anymore. This is a
band I'd like to see". What a weird futuristic fusion.


On Mar 19 p@ wrote:I got the PX Masters off to DGM on Monday (13th). At the
moment it is a 15 track swamp buggy.


On Mar 24 p@ wrote:We also got word that when Robert and Alex mastered PX they did
no EQing. Yikes! I guess that's a compliment but we know there was room
to improve but we lacked the tools, they have a awesome Tc M5000 at DGM.


On May 7 p@ wrote:As you will hear Robert say on the PX cd, "Somebody give me a
one, I don’t mind two ones or even three...."


On June 27 p@ wrote:Barcelona
I got a sample of Alan (our hard working light man) saying ‘Manny I’m gonna
fucking kill you' in his thick Scottish accent, for future PXing.


On June 28th p@ wrote:San Sabastion
Then back to my rubber pad to warm up. As I pass Robert he warns, like
almost every gig since the P3 shows, "I hope your prepared to be a trio,
or duo." He is once again expecting a photo session. I suggest that we
need another way to deal with this. Many ideas, but the one that he
responds to. . . how about for every annoyance he has a road case placed
in front of him, sort of like Pink Floyd building the wall? This way its
not one act that stops the show for everyone, in fact as his retribution
proceeds (tit for tat) the audience can act to control themselves, or
not. We could do this many ways , maybe a small curtain, in front of him,
that is lowered in stages.


Thanks for keeping that diary p@!

I still enjoy reading it. Especially when there is no fresh Crim to keep us buzzing.
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