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Starless & Bible Black (1974)

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Postby Glenn Seitz on Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:57 pm

Believe it or not, I actually prefer the live version to the "studio" version (probably because it leads directly into the improv "Starless and Bible Black") despite the electric piano after the melotron meltdown. Driving in to the office in the morning I almost always have to have the one-two punch of Night Watch then S & BB (yes, that would be hundreds of times). What a task it would have been to splice studio material directly into the first half of a live performance without missing a beat......
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Postby evktalo on Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:21 pm

MiKcrobe wrote:Another reason to get it is for the repaired version of the "The Night Watch." The live version from the Concertgebouw is flawed due to Cross' mellotron not working.


I actually love that. For me that mellotron meltdown is a happy accident. It's perfectly musical and I love how lonely Fripp's beautiful guitar line sounds without the string backing.

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Postby Hans on Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:57 pm

evktalo wrote:
MiKcrobe wrote:Another reason to get it is for the repaired version of the "The Night Watch." The live version from the Concertgebouw is flawed due to Cross' mellotron not working.


I actually love that. For me that mellotron meltdown is a happy accident. It's perfectly musical and I love how lonely Fripp's beautiful guitar line sounds without the string backing.

--Eino


I for one love the sound of a Rhodes, it fits perfectly in there. If it only had been mixed just a little bit louder..
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Postby Riverman on Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:57 am

To come back to an old topic...

grantb4 wrote:How do they know? Tonight I burned a CD from my Starless & Bible Black LP via turntable and Tascam CC-222 deck. Then I took that CD and inserted into my Mac in order to play the CD in iTunes (wasn't planning on putting it on an iPod). The database that iTunes uses recognized the LP and inserted the Artist, Song, date, etc information!!! I was/am dumbfounded. How do they know???


It's Gracenote. As I suspected, apparently there's a huge database of albums that stores the number of tracks and track times, and programs like iTunes simply consult the database to find a match for the tracklist that's submitted. I guess it's fairly accurate.
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Postby vrooom on Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:28 am

Talking of your PC automatically knowing what track is from what CD, here's a fascinating news item where such technology revealed how one producer faked music tracks for a CD:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6400307.stm


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Postby MiKcrobe on Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:02 pm

vrooom wrote:Talking of your PC automatically knowing what track is from what CD, here's a fascinating news item where such technology revealed how one producer faked music tracks for a CD:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6400307.stm


Darren

That's a strange story. I guess the music database must be capable of identifiying a sort of "digital fingerprint" of the actual digital code, but what I don't understand is why iTunes would identify only the inserted snippets rather than the parent recording.
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Re: Starless & Bible Black (1974)

Postby EruditeMan on Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:02 am

I have a question about Improv: Trio... it's 4:36 on the KCCC Live in Mainz, not great sound quality, and has bells towards the end. It's 5:40 on S+BB, great sound quality, no bells, sounds overall a bit different.

Does that mean that they just tried recreating what was an improv in the studio for the actual album? I understand sound quality could've been touched up in the studio, but they couldn't add a solid minute to the track and smooth out all the rough edges of the actual live recording...

Does anyone know for sure what they did to the improvs, and specifically this one, to make them sound like they do in the studio? It's one of my favorite tracks, but these differences between the Mainz recording and the S+BB versions have always confused me.
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Re: Starless & Bible Black (1974)

Postby vrooom on Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:09 am

EruditeMan wrote:I have a question about Improv: Trio... it's 4:36 on the KCCC Live in Mainz, not great sound quality, and has bells towards the end. It's 5:40 on S+BB, great sound quality, no bells, sounds overall a bit different.

Does that mean that they just tried recreating what was an improv in the studio for the actual album? I understand sound quality could've been touched up in the studio, but they couldn't add a solid minute to the track and smooth out all the rough edges of the actual live recording...

Does anyone know for sure what they did to the improvs, and specifically this one, to make them sound like they do in the studio? It's one of my favorite tracks, but these differences between the Mainz recording and the S+BB versions have always confused me.


The version from S&BB was taken from the show at the Amsterdam Concertgebouw show documented on "The Nightwatch" - the Mainz version is a separate attempt at it.
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Re: Starless & Bible Black (1974)

Postby grantb4 on Sun Mar 17, 2013 4:54 am

I can't remember off the top of my head which track it was, but I think it might have been Trio ... anyway, during recording they ran out of tape. You can hear it at the end. Later Fripp decided he wanted to keep that version on the LP. So whatever they played after the tape ran out, we'll never hear.

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Re: Starless & Bible Black (1974)

Postby Geno on Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:37 pm

grantb4 wrote:I can't remember off the top of my head which track it was, ... during recording they ran out of tape. You can hear it at the end. Later Fripp decided he wanted to keep that version on the LP.


That was "The Mincer," and actually they've since released the entire show with that part replaced (patching the gap in the official tape with a piece from a bootleg).

http://store.nexternal.com/dgm/king-cri ... p1097.aspx
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